Ultimate Reality

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Posts by Ultimate Reality

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  269

  Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .

  i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.

  so please feel free to post your experiences.

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  Ultimate Reality

  Ok, I'll try again...

  How do we know, according to the Bible itself and not human speculation, that a Bible prophecy has a secondary, larger fulfillment?

  Can you cite any scriptural proof to support this interpretive theory?
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  269

  Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .

  i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.

  so please feel free to post your experiences.

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  Ultimate Reality

  Will someone please provide the SCRIPTURAL JUSTIFICATION for the 'major' and 'minor' fulfillment concept of a Bible prophecy? The so-called 'double-sense' method of interpretation...aka Parallel Dispensations.

  The Society is completely dependent on this concept. However, the 'new' generation definition does cause problems since the 'second, larger fulfillment' no longer matches the 1st century time of a generation (leading up to 70CE) nor the concept of a generation (like the one that 'saw the events of 1914').
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  14

  Not doubting in private

  by 5thGeneration in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  can anyone please help me find this wt quote.. it was from around 1999-2002.. where it says it would be wrong to have any doubts, even in private.

  something to that effect.. thanks.. 5th.

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  Ultimate Reality

  So, to keep your place faithfully, do not follow the wicked course of Satan the Devil. He let iniquity, that is, lawlessness and rebellion against Jehovah’s organization, take root in his heart. Do not openly or secretly challenge Jehovah’s channel of communication, as Korah, Dathan and Abiram did, lest the earth swallow you up and you lose your place among those who will live in the new world. – Watchtower, July 15, 1958, p. 440

  "The spirit that now operates in the sons of disobedience" is so widespread that it is like the air we breathe. (Eph. 2:2) That spirit can cause us to think that we do not need guidance from Jehovah's organization. Surely we do not want to be like Diotrephes, who would not 'receive anything from the apostle John with respect.' (3 John 9,10) We need to guard against developing a spirit of independence. By word or action, may we never challenge the channel of communication that Jehovah is using today.(Num 16:1-3) On the contrary, we should cherish our privilege to cooperate with the slave class. And should we not strive to be obedient and submissive to those taking the lead in our local congregation? – Watchtower, November 15, 2009 p. 13
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  6

  Help with Doubting BIL

  by Simon Morley in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have a bil that has started to doubt.

  he is hung up on the fact that he sees jw's as the only one fullfilling the preaching of the good news.

  i am sure there are some excellent past posts on this topic and would be happy to get them.

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  Ultimate Reality

  The 'preaching work' identifies a particular period of time -- not a religious group. We know that the preaching work had a first century fulfillment, but where in Jesus words do we find evidence that there will be a secondary fulfillment?

  Also, when a Witness goes to a door and the householder already has a Bible and a basic knowledge of Christianity, is that due to the preaching work of Jehovah's Witnesses? Obviously not. It is a grand work only in their minds.
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  127

  Disrespect of the Bible

  by brotherdan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am going to get a lot of flack for this post, but i need to do it.

  i want to preface this by saying that i don't judge any of you and i believe in the right of freedom of speech and freedom of religion, including your freedom to not practice one.. however, i'm finding a trend among some ex jws here.

  notice the word "some".

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  Ultimate Reality

  BrotherDan, you have a PM.
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  168

  Jehovah correcting the organization

  by sabastious in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  read the account of moses taking the credit for the water provision miracle and that of king david's folly and his consequences.. ...read them.... ...you are still reading.... ...ok now you have that fresh in your mind.. jehovah had a correctional arrangement in place for all his spokesmen.

  story of jonah would work great too.

  the point being that in the bible god has always had this correctional arrangement for the leaders of his earthly organization.. that being said, where did that arrangement go?

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  Ultimate Reality

  Alice,

  You quoted 1 Timothy and pointed our that Jesus is the mediator. Are you aware (according to the Society) that Jesus is NOT the mediator for virtually all of Jehovah's Witnesses and certainly not even a potential mediator for Earth's billions?

  This is the core problem with the Governing Body concept and any other group or individual that claims to be an Earthly representative of God. They seek to take over Christ's role as mediator.

  The Watchtower of November 15, 1979, page 26, made this comment:

  “What, then, is Christ’s role in this program of salvation? Paul proceeds to say: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men [not, all men], a man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all.”—1 Tim. 2:5, 6.

  The insertion "[not, all men]" is the Society blatantly changing the meaning of the Bible.

  How do you feel about this?
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  50

  How often does a Wt song run through your head

  by Lady Lee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yesterday i was sitting here and all of a sudden realized i was humming one of those dreadful songs.

  i even remembered the words!

  <chills>.. so i sat here and started singing other songs out loud, which i normally don't do even though i live alone and don't have to listen to people begging me to stop singing.. so how do you get those songs out of your head?.

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  Ultimate Reality

  It happens more often than I like. But what was very unusual was when I was going through a lot of emotions, coming to grips with the true history of the Society and its teachings and its impact on my life. I was studying the Bible and historical publications a few hours every day, day after day, and had come see all the problems.

  I would wake up in the morning with Kingdom Melodies constantly running through my head and it would continue through the day. It was like all these songs and their teachings were resurfacing, not wanting to let go of my mind. Eventually it subsided, but it was intense for a period of time.
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  24

  A, uh, belated introduction

  by SweetBabyCheezits in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  quick bio: born-in, third gen jw, devout family, dad an elder/po, mom pioneered off/on, baptized at age 10 (my elder dad asked me to wait but i didnt), had overall good childhood, toured bethel, aux pio off/on, finished hs early, reg pio for a year then pio school, met amazing jw girl (also third gen devout), spent a year in community college (paid for by fairly conservative jw parents), got a good job, married amazing jw girl, appointed as ms, delivered public talks and parts on ca/dc, wife and i had first child.

  it was a near-storybook jw life (except no bethel).

  i had a couple of normal issues in teenage years, but sought the assistance from the elders and ironed it out.

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  Ultimate Reality

  Welcome!
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  22

  The Governing Body and the Sept 15, 2010 WT

  by Ultimate Reality in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there have been a few threads on this magazine already.

  but i cannot recall a wt that has so many references to the gb and its authority throughout the articles as this one.

  the grip of authority and control is tightening.

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  Ultimate Reality

  Thomas:

  Great point, reading in the 1st person. This is a good idea in every article in order to see the real intent. The WT use of language has become more seductive and creative over the decades. But it is clear that all are to be loyal followers of the Governing Body and numerous articles since the start of the 'Study Edition' have been highlighting this authority. These men are to have unqualified and unconditional support from their followers.

  Flipper:

  Thanks. I think these articles provide further proof that the organization is in a state of decay.
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  22

  The Governing Body and the Sept 15, 2010 WT

  by Ultimate Reality in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there have been a few threads on this magazine already.

  but i cannot recall a wt that has so many references to the gb and its authority throughout the articles as this one.

  the grip of authority and control is tightening.

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  Ultimate Reality

  There have been a few threads on this magazine already. But I cannot recall a WT that has so many references to the GB and its authority throughout the articles as this one. The grip of authority and control is tightening. What is being written is making it ever more obvious that the 8 men of the GB are the source of mediation to God and source of salvation for humankind. Here are some highlights:
  
  Without the assistance of “the faithful and discreet slave,” we would neither understand the full import of what we read in God’s Word nor know how to apply it. (Matt. 24:45-47) - page 8
  
  The One Source of Spiritual Instruction First-century Christians enjoyed unity because they all received encouragement from the same source. They recognized that Jesus was teaching and directing the congregation through a governing body, composed of the apostles and older men in Jerusalem. - page 13 Similarly today, a Governing Body composed of spirit-anointed Christians contributes to the unity of the worldwide congregation. The Governing Body publishes spiritually encouraging literature in many languages. This spiritual food is based on God’s Word. Thus, what is taught is not from men but from Jehovah.—Isa. 54:13. - page 13
  
  Accordingly, as Jehovah’s people, we are united because we accept Jehovah’s sovereignty, love our brothers, hope in God’s Kingdom, and respect the ones God uses to take the lead among us. - page 14
  
  Jehovah’s spirit and blessings are linked to the one association of brothers that God is using. Even if someone in the congregation upsets us, where else can we turn? Nowhere else can we hear the sayings of everlasting life.—John 6:68. - page 18
  
  The apostles and the elders of the Jerusalem congregation acted as a governing body. Christ used this instrument to lead the entire group of his anointed “brothers” on earth. (Heb. 2:11; Acts 16:4, 5) In this time of the end, Christ has committed “all his belongings”— all the earthly interests of the Kingdom—to his “faithful and discreet slave” and its representative Governing Body, a group of anointed Christian men. (Matt. 24:45-47) The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following the lead of the modern-day Governing Body, they are in fact following their Leader, Christ. - page 23
  
  Since being invested with kingly power in 1914, Christ is more than ever “with” his disciples and active as their Leader. His intense activity since 1914 will be examined in the following article. - page 25 [... in case anyone thinks the Society's chronology is not important...}
  
  Jesus had prophesied that “on arriving” to inspect his domestics during “the conclusion of the system of things,” he would find a slave providing them “food at the proper time.” He would pronounce that slave happy and would “appoint him over all his belongings” on earth. (Matt. 24:3, 45-47) - page 26
  
  As Head of the Christian congregation, Christ has used this “faithful and discreet slave” to administer His Kingdom interests on earth. He has provided direction for the anointed “domestics” and their “other sheep” companions by means of a Governing Body.—John 10:16. - page 26
  
  They recognize, however, that Christ is using a small group of anointed Christian men as a Governing Body to lead and direct his disciples on earth.—Read Acts 15:6, 28-30. - page 27
  
  This refers to Christ’s coming as Judge to separate people of “all the nations” into two categories: “the sheep,” those who will have actively supported his spiritual brothers (anointed Christians on earth) and “the goats,” those “who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.” (2 Thess. 1:7, 8) -page 29